Practically Speaking

Hi Kyle, WOW! How can Mr. Gibson even think of 4 K when the decision was made along with lots of input from the public. Stop the outside students from coming into the system. The next thing he will do to use scare tactics is talk about stopping the athletic programs, even though we are building all these Gym's and all the money it will take to condition the air in those facilities. 4K for those that use it is nothing more than a baby siting facility. No educational value.

All your discussion that you have provided goes on deaf ears at the school administration. More and larger government is what they want. Makes me sick. He will be back at it again , old tactic,and they (school board) hired him on again for another dose of his terrible logic. Not good. Thanks for your efforts.

Kyle's reply: Just to clarify, Dr. Gibson did not say they would implement 4K, just that he mentioned it as a revenue generating possibility--as in he flirted with the idea. 

I believe the rationalization for 4K is for the public to pay for day care not education.  I believe Obama's and Clinton's rationalization is to get our children indoctrinated into Socialism at a younger and younger age.  If our representatives cared about education, they'd address the product they are putting on the streets after 12th grade. Elmbrook needs to cut spending as Mr. Algaier suggests.  They should direct their spending to areas that demonstrate proven results. Right now, Elmbrook puts out a great product.  Don't mess with success.

Gotta make this short. I can hear the school 'marms' tramping down the hall yelling "There's that elf again - get the tar and feathers!"

"Another 'revenue producer' would be to go to the taxpayers with a referendum to raise the spending cap!"

I'm confused. My understanding is that the board is restrained by a state imposed cap on it's tax rate. Who or what imposes a 'spending cap'? Though one would be nice!

Also, revisiting 4-K again this year would certainly document a poverty of leadership in the superintendent's office. Considering the state of the economy, the record encumbrance we assumed in the bond issue this year, together with nagging concerns such as the taxpayers being conned into astro-turfing sports venues at their own expense, it would appear to be time to begin slicing the fat out of the budget to make it balance.

Failing to do so forces one to rightly question the integrity of school district management.

Not even Santa can operate that way!

Kyle's reply: The spending cap might have been my phrase. I just checked my quick notes from that night and I wrote, raise the cap. You are correct, it is the tax rate cap. (That cap does eventually influence how much they can spend, however.) I will listen for his specific term when I watch again.

I read to my children everynight, and inspire them to learn to read and recognize letters at a level I think/thought is above the average.  

But I was very surprised that when entering 5K, children in Elmbrook are Expected to be able to read and write!  I was pretty astonished. Did any of you know that a 5K kindergartener is expected to be reading and writing? When I found this out, and in light of the very successful pilot program, I was all for 4K. Even if it only helps in the short term. Elmbrook has very high standards, a good thing, but if they expect this much from a 4.5 year old, they should have the means to make sure all students are at this level at the start of 5K, which would make 4K more than just a luxury and certainly not daycare.  They will be learning to read and write, doing math, it isn't all crackers and naps.

My children, at this age, are about at this level with alot of encouragement and parents that have been well above average in intellitual means, but to have that be the expectation, well, that is pretty amazing.

Dr. Gibson certainly has a right to look at 4K, and with the massive positive regard for the pilot study, hopefully they will look at it again and look at voting to reinstate the program it in the upcoming year.  Essentially, the pilot study was a huge success to anyone enrolled or taking part in it.  Why even conduct the pilot study if no matter what the result, the program is eliminated.  If it proves to at very least break even on the dollars it brings in, it will be a bonus to Elmbrook, good for the district, and assure that those 5 year olds entering 5K would be prepared to hit the ground running and start exploring H.A.Rey, Carle, and Shakespeare and Chaucer in that first year.

Larry, you mention the Large input from the district on the matter last year, a few people were vocal on either side of the issue, but did you remember that the Vast majority was in Favor of the program?

I realize I am in the minority in this particular blog on this issue, but what do you all think about a 4-5 year old being able to read and write on his/her own?  

I remember very well starting to read in 1st grade at a good school with parents that read to me at an early age, and i probably had the beginnings of intelligence to read before 1st grade, but entering 5K with that ability?

Kyle's reply: Reading at an early age has more to do with readiness than being in a school program. I too read to my son every day. He started reading before age 4, and he was not in 4K. I was a late reader, and I was in 4K. Ability to read early or late, however, does not equal intelligence or success in life. Woodrow Wilson was a very late reader--11 years old if I remember rightly.

Finland's example of starting school at age 7 and being a leader in academics illustrates earlier isn't better.

Elmbrook, because of budgetary concerns, is looking at some very tough choices. 4K did bring in some dollars, but ultimately, all of that money came from taxpayers. Plus there are the hidden costs of increased maintenance, custodial, nursing, and social services. Taxpayers should not be asked to fund programs that do not show real, long lasting benefit.
 

"what do you all think about a 4-5 year old being able to read and write on his/her own?"

MikeyD, I wonder if there was a miscommunication when this was discussed.  I too was startled when my non-reader brought home a book to "read."  Turns out it was more about getting going than presumed ability.  Certainly some children do enter kindergarten already reading and writing; in that sense  it is "expected."  Many other children enter unable to read and write, and that too is "expected."  

Kyle's reply: Thanks, Kathryn, for sharing your experience. It certainly makes sense since 4K is not a prerequisite for 5K, and our Wisconsin does not require school attendance until 1st grade. 

Hi Kyle and Kathryn,

Kyle, i agree that being able to read at 4 or 5 bears little correlation with intelligence much later in life. If it is about 'readiness', then 4K would be a great tool.  I think the most beneficial thing about 4K would be to increase 'readiness' in some 4 year olds and get them prepared for the next few years by starting a slightly structured education while getting them acquainted with school, teachers, learning  social cues and how to deal in a larger social context. Hopefully Elmbrook, in an effort to save taxdollars, won't cut out reading lessons until 11 years of age because one person who didn't read until he was 11 still excelled and became president! ;)  I would not recommend cutting out 1st and 2nd grade since Finland does, would you?  It is hard to extrapolate results based on one person or one other country. always be expected to provide learning experiences to their children whether they are in school or not, and whether the parents both work full time as most do nowadays or some other situation.  Again, if 4K brought in more dollars (ultimately they all come from taxpayers of course, but if most of them come from federal funds then we win on the balance sheet) than it used, while providing a valuable and well regarded service to the community, than we probably should have the program because our community benefits overall, even if the older population doesn't directly use that service.

Kathryn, I  don't think it was a miscommunication, it was actually quite clear. My child was weeks 'late' based on birthdate for admission into 5K. He has all the intellectual and social abilities (the social aspect should not be overlooked, it is very important to learning to deal with others and getting along in the real world), and recently read a complete starter book to me. My child was rejected early admission because he could not read when tested. Many kids are home schooled, so of course there is no absolute connection between one year of schooling and the ability to read. They expected him to read months before admission to 5K during a spring term meeting session. If they require a 4.5 year old to read, I was surprised but not unhappy that he was denied admission because I don't want him to feel behind or out of place and struggle.

Maybe they expect More from an early admission just to be 'on the safe side'.

Kyle's reply: Actually, if I had it to do all over again (schooling my son) I would not have started school as early as I did. Although he does not like school, at least I did not totally kill his love of learning. He went on to study many complicated subjects such as electronics all on his own and has excelled at them. I am in the Raymond and Dorothy Moore camp: later school, not earlier! Too bad I did not know about them when it mattered.

4Ks funding by the way is primarily from local tax dollars and state aid as far as I know. 

Kyle, I thought I recognized Raymond Moore in your comments!

I've homeschooled some of mine and schooled others.  Also did the early enrollment testing with one.  MickeyD you are correct in that more is expected from early admission candidates.  Early reading would be a readiness indicator, but isn't supposed to be the only factor.  My child wasn't reading, but did qualify.  I ultimately decided against early enrollment.  When in doubt, school is better late than early (apologies to Kyle and the Moores.)

Hi Kathryn,

I completely agree, even as we went through the process of early enrollment, we were not certain we would go through with it quite yet since we were very happy with the situation our child was in at the time. But when we went to the test and he was in the room exploring with all the other children, most of whom were not early admission, he looked like he fit in perfectly. The fact that they kinda used the lack of reading ability to disqualify a 4.5 year old outright seemed wrong, even if they expect a bit more from early admission children(i guess that alone seems wrong, since they should expect the early admissions to be on level). We were on the fence about enrolling him worried that he would not be up to size/social interaction ability/intelligence of others in his age group.  We have big families and he interacts with older cousins all the time, and his intelligence is what we would call above average, so we weren't sure.  The reason we were thinking of early enrollment (again it was only a couple of weeks) is because we don't want him to be intellectually ahead of others (now he will probably be the oldest in his class) and end up bored in class throughout elementary school, which can lead to being distracted and other problems.

I am sure he will do great either way!  As I can tell both of you know, one of life's best treasures is the pleasure of watching our children learn, explore, make new observations on their own and develop that self-knowledge and to see that look in their eye that says 'I learned that, I understand that, i figured that out, that is so cool!'  

Kyle's reply: Even though you were addressing Kathryn, I am chiming in here with a BIG yes to your last paragraph. Just as it is a special moment in a parent's life to catch your child's first words or steps, experiencing them learning other new things firsthand is exciting too. It is what keeps homeschoolers going day in and day out. It kept me going until high school graduation day.